The nature of God

What you'll learn

Explain the Latter-day Saint teaching on God from their own sources: the King Follett discourse, the Lorenzo Snow couplet, D&C 130:22, exaltation and Heavenly Mother.
Contrast it with the biblical doctrine of one eternal, uncreated God, using Isaiah 43-45, Psalm 90:2, John 4:24 and Numbers 23:19.
Explain why the doctrine of God changes everything else, including the meaning of shared words like “God”, “Jesus” and “grace”.

Same words, different dictionary

When a Latter-day Saint says “God”, “Jesus”, “atonement” or “salvation”, they mean something different from historic Christianity. This is why conversations can feel friendly yet go nowhere: you agree on words but not on meanings. The most important difference is the doctrine of God itself.

Historic Christianity teaches that God is the one eternal Creator, a spirit without a body, who created everything else from nothing. He has always been God. There is an infinite gap between Creator and creature. Latter-day Saint teaching, at least since Joseph Smith's later sermons, says something very different.

You studied the Creator-creature distinction and God's aseity in Know Your Faith, Lesson 2, and the Trinity in Lesson 3. This lesson sets them beside Latter-day Saint teaching.

What does "same words, different dictionary" mean, and why does it make conversations with Latter-day Saints tricky?Show answer

Latter-day Saints use words like God, Jesus, atonement and salvation, but mean something different from historic Christianity. So conversations can feel friendly yet go nowhere, because you agree on words but not meanings. The most important difference is the doctrine of God: historic Christianity teaches one eternal Creator, a spirit without a body, who has always been God and made everything from nothing.

shared words, different meanings
friendly but going nowhere
doctrine of God is key
God eternal Creator, always God

The King Follett discourse and the Snow couplet

On 7 April 1844, at a church conference in Nauvoo, in a sermon given at the request of the family of King Follett, a member who had recently died, Joseph Smith taught that God himself was once as we are now and is an exalted man who sits enthroned in yonder heavens. He said that God was not God from all eternity, and that people must learn how to be gods themselves, as all gods have done before them. The first of these statements is quoted in church manuals such as Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Joseph Smith (chapter 2); the fuller text is in History of the Church (vol. 6), and the church's Gospel Topics essay “Becoming Like God” discusses the sermon.

Lorenzo Snow, later the fifth president of the church, summarised the idea in a famous couplet: “As man now is, God once was: As God now is, man may be.” The church's own manual on his teachings presents this couplet.

Doctrine and Covenants 130:22 states: “The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man's; the Son also; but the Holy Ghost has not a body of flesh and bones, but is a personage of Spirit.” The Father, Son and Holy Ghost are three separate beings, united in purpose, called the Godhead.

Explain in your own words what Joseph Smith taught in the King Follett discourse and how Lorenzo Snow summarised it.Show answer

In April 1844 Joseph Smith taught that God was once as we are now, an exalted man enthroned in the heavens, who was not God from all eternity, and that people must learn how to be gods themselves. Lorenzo Snow, later the fifth president, summed this up: "As man now is, God once was: As God now is, man may be." Both are presented in the church's own manuals.

God once a man, exalted
not God from all eternity
humans can become gods
Snow couplet

What is the difference between the LDS "Godhead" and the Christian Trinity, according to D&C 130:22 and this section?Show answer

D&C 130:22 says the Father and the Son each have a body of flesh and bones, while the Holy Ghost is a personage of spirit. In LDS teaching the Father, Son and Holy Ghost are three separate beings united in purpose, called the Godhead. That differs from historic Christianity's one God, a spirit without a body.

Father has body of flesh and bones
three separate beings
united only in purpose
contrast: one God, spirit

Exaltation and Heavenly Mother

Latter-day Saints teach three kingdoms, or degrees, of glory after the final judgement: the celestial (highest), the terrestrial and the telestial (D&C 76). Exaltation is the highest degree within the celestial kingdom (D&C 131:1-4). Those who receive the temple ordinances, including sealing in marriage, and keep their covenants may become like Heavenly Father. D&C 132:20 says of such people, “Then shall they be gods”, and the church manual Gospel Principles (ch. 47) says the exalted will be united eternally with their families and “be able to have eternal increase”. Humans are understood to be literal spirit children of heavenly parents, who existed before birth in a premortal life.

Latter-day Saints also believe in a Heavenly Mother. The hymn “O My Father” by Eliza R. Snow refers to a mother in heaven, and the church's 2015 Gospel Topics essay “Mother in Heaven” affirms the belief while noting little has been revealed about her.

How much modern members emphasise these teachings varies. Some downplay the idea that God was once a man; Gordon B. Hinckley, a later president, said in interviews in the 1990s that he did not know that the church taught it much. Ask your friend what they believe, and do not assume. But the King Follett teaching is still quoted in church manuals and has not been repudiated. In fairness, note how the church's essay “Becoming Like God” frames it: “Latter-day Saints believe that God's children will always worship Him”, and “Our progression will never change His identity as our Father and our God.” The essay also says exaltation comes through the Atonement of Christ. So do not say that Latter-day Saints hope to replace or rival God; the problem is that they hope to become, by nature, what only God is.

What is exaltation in LDS teaching, and what does it promise?Show answer

Exaltation is the highest degree of the celestial kingdom, the highest of three kingdoms of glory. Those who receive temple ordinances, including sealing in marriage, and keep their covenants may become like Heavenly Father and have "eternal increase"; D&C 132:20 says "Then shall they be gods." Humans are understood as literal spirit children of heavenly parents who existed in a premortal life.

highest degree of celestial kingdom
requires covenants and temple sealing
become like Heavenly Father; gods; eternal increase
premortal spirit children

Why does the lesson tell you to ask your friend what they believe rather than assume?Show answer

Members vary in how much they emphasise these teachings, and some downplay the idea that God was once a man; Gordon B. Hinckley said in 1990s interviews he did not know the church taught it much. So you should listen first and not tell someone what they believe. Yet the King Follett teaching is still quoted in church manuals and has not been repudiated, so it is fair to raise.

members' emphasis varies
Hinckley's interviews
don't assume
still in manuals, not repudiated

The biblical God: eternal, uncreated, alone

Scripture's testimony is clear and repeated. Isaiah 43:10: “Before me no god was formed, nor shall there be any after me.” Note both directions: no gods before Yahweh (so he was not preceded by a Heavenly Father of his own) and none after (so no human will become a god).

Isaiah 44:6-8: “I am the first and I am the last; besides me there is no god... Is there a God besides me? There is no Rock; I know not any.” God himself says he knows of no other God. Isaiah 45:5: “I am the LORD, and there is no other, besides me there is no God.”

Psalm 90:2: “from everlasting to everlasting you are God.” God did not become God; he always was God. Numbers 23:19: “God is not man.” Hosea 11:9 says the same: “I am God and not a man.” John 4:24: “God is spirit”, and Jesus says a spirit does not have flesh and bones (Luke 24:39).

Latter-day Saints may answer that these texts refer only to this world, or that they deny other gods being worshipped by us, not other gods existing. But Isaiah grounds God's uniqueness in his eternal existence and his role as sole Creator (Isa 44:24, “who alone stretched out the heavens”). That is about being, not just worship.

A useful way in is simply to ask: “Did Heavenly Father have a Father?” Some members will say yes, citing Joseph Smith; others will say they do not know or that it is not important. Either way, the question surfaces the issue. In the Bible there is no God behind God. Yahweh is the uncaused cause of everything else, the one who says “I am who I am” (Exod 3:14) and needs nothing from anyone (Acts 17:24-25).

Which text shows that there were no gods before Yahweh and none after, and how does it answer the LDS view?Show answer

Isaiah 43:10: "Before me no god was formed, nor shall there be any after me." No gods before means Yahweh was not preceded by a Heavenly Father of his own. None after means no human will become a god, which rules out exaltation to godhood.

Isaiah 43:10
none before: no Father behind God
none after: humans won't become gods

How would you answer a Latter-day Saint who says Isaiah's "no other God" texts are only about worship in this world?Show answer

Isaiah grounds God's uniqueness in his eternal existence and his role as sole Creator, the one "who alone stretched out the heavens" (Isa 44:24). God says he knows of no other God (Isa 44:8), and Psalm 90:2 says he is God from everlasting to everlasting. That is a claim about being, not only about worship, so you might ask, "Did Heavenly Father have a Father?"

uniqueness grounded in being
sole Creator (Isa 44:24)
God knows of no other God
"Did Heavenly Father have a Father?"

Why this changes everything

If God is an exalted man who progressed to godhood under the law of eternal progression, then God is not the ultimate reality. There is something more basic than God: the eternal laws, matter and intelligences within which he progressed. God becomes a very great being within the universe, rather than the Creator of all things from nothing. This undermines God's sovereignty, aseity (his self-existence) and unchanging nature.

It also changes Jesus. Latter-day Saints sincerely worship Jesus as their Saviour and teach that he is Jehovah, the God of the Old Testament. But in their teaching he is “the Firstborn Son of the Father in the spirit” (Gospel Topics, “Premortality”), our elder brother among Heavenly Father's spirit children, and a being separate from the Father. That is not the eternal Son, of one being with the Father, through whom all things were made (John 1:3).

And it changes salvation. If humans are gods in embryo, the human problem is lack of progress and growth, not rebellion against a holy Creator. Grace becomes enabling power to progress, rather than the free justification of the ungodly. This is why the doctrine of God is the place to start. The presuppositional question you met in Foundations of Defence, Lesson 2, “What is ultimate?”, also exposes the problem in the LDS worldview: only an eternal, self-sufficient Creator can ground logic, morality and meaning.

Explain how the LDS doctrine of God changes their understanding of Jesus and of salvation.Show answer

If God is an exalted man who progressed within eternal laws and matter, God is no longer ultimate or the Creator of all from nothing. Jesus becomes Heavenly Father's firstborn spirit child and our elder brother, not the eternal Son through whom all things were made (John 1:3). Salvation becomes a matter of progress, with grace as enabling power, rather than the free justification of the ungodly who rebelled against a holy Creator.

God not ultimate; laws more basic
Jesus as elder brother, not eternal Son
problem: lack of progress, not rebellion
grace as enabling power

In their own words

“God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens.” (Joseph Smith, King Follett discourse, 7 April 1844 (History of the Church 6:305; Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Joseph Smith, ch. 2))

“As man now is, God once was: As God now is, man may be.” (Lorenzo Snow (Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Lorenzo Snow, ch. 5))

“The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man's; the Son also; but the Holy Ghost is a personage of Spirit.” (D&C 130:22)

“Those who receive the fulness of the new and everlasting covenant of marriage and endure may be exalted and become gods.” (D&C 132:19-20)

“We are spirit children of heavenly parents, a Heavenly Father and a Heavenly Mother.” (The Family: A Proclamation to the World (1995); Gospel Topics essay “Mother in Heaven” (2015))

Key texts

Isaiah 43:10: No god formed before Yahweh and none after: rules out both a God who had a God before him and humans becoming gods.
Isaiah 44:6-8: God himself knows of no other God; this is a claim about reality, not merely about worship.
Psalm 90:2: From everlasting to everlasting God is God; he never became God.
Numbers 23:19: “God is not man”: directly contradicts the idea that God is an exalted man.
John 4:24 / Luke 24:39: God is spirit, and a spirit does not have flesh and bones; contrast D&C 130:22.
Isaiah 44:24: Yahweh alone stretched out the heavens: God is the sole Creator, not one god among many.

Objections and answers

Try answering each one yourself before you open the response.

“Psalm 82:6 says “You are gods”, and Jesus quoted it in John 10:34. The Bible teaches humans can become gods.”Show a response

Let's read Psalm 82 together. God stands in the assembly and judges these “gods” for judging unjustly (82:2), then says “you shall die like men” (82:7). They are human judges called “gods” (elohim) because they represented God's authority, much as Moses was made “like God to Pharaoh” (Exod 7:1). The psalm is a rebuke, not a promise of exaltation. Jesus uses it in John 10 as an argument from the lesser to the greater: if Scripture can call unjust judges “gods”, how much more can the one the Father sanctified and sent call himself the Son of God? He is not teaching that his hearers will become gods. Isaiah 43:10 still stands: no god after Yahweh.

“Early church fathers taught theosis, that man becomes god. Athanasius said God became man so that man might become god. We're restoring that.”Show a response

That's a good historical point, and Athanasius did write something like that. But read him in context. Athanasius was the great defender of Nicaea, insisting the Son is eternal and of one essence with the Father, and that there is one uncreated God. For the Fathers, “deification” meant being united to God by grace and sharing his life and holiness (2 Pet 1:4), not becoming a separate god with one's own creation and spirit children. Athanasius would have rejected the idea that God was once a man. If you appeal to the Fathers on theosis, you also need to accept their doctrine of God, which is the Trinity. Would you be willing to read On the Incarnation with me?

“God created man in his own image, after his likeness (Genesis 1:26). That means God has a body like ours.”Show a response

The image of God does not mean a physical copy. Genesis 1:27 says God created man “male and female” in his image, but you would not say God is both male and female in body. The image is about representation, relationship and moral and rational capacity: humans are made to rule creation on God's behalf and to know him. Scripture uses physical language for God (his hand, his eyes, his wings) as metaphor; Psalm 91:4 says God covers us with his feathers, yet he is not a bird. Jesus said “God is spirit” (John 4:24) and that a spirit does not have flesh and bones (Luke 24:39). God the Son took a body at the incarnation; the Father did not.

“When Isaiah says there is no other God, he means no other God for us to worship, not that other gods don't exist.”Show a response

That's a thoughtful reading, but look at what Isaiah grounds God's uniqueness in. Isaiah 43:10 says no god was formed before him and none after; that is about existence, not worship. In 44:8 God asks, “Is there a God besides me? There is no Rock; I know not any.” If an omniscient God knows of no other God, there is none. And 44:24 says he stretched out the heavens “alone” and “by myself”. Isaiah repeatedly mocks other gods as nothing (41:24; 44:9-20). The point is that Yahweh alone is God by nature. If God the Father had his own Father, Isaiah's claims would be false. How do you understand “none before me”?

“At Jesus' baptism the Father spoke from heaven while the Son stood in the water and the Spirit came down like a dove. That proves they are three separate beings, just as we teach.”Show a response

I agree that passage shows real distinction: the Father, the Son and the Spirit are not one person wearing three masks. Historic Christianity has always said that. But distinction of persons is not the same as three separate gods. The same Bible insists, "Hear, O Israel: the LORD our God, the LORD is one" (Deut 6:4), and God says, "Is there a God besides me? ... I know not any" (Isa 44:8). So Christians confess one God, one divine being, in three distinct persons. The LDS Godhead is three beings united in purpose, which means three gods. That fits Matthew 3, but it cannot fit Isaiah 44. The Trinity fits both. So the question is not whether the Father and Son are distinct, but whether there is one God or many. What do you do with Isaiah's "I know not any"?

“Stephen saw Jesus "standing at the right hand of God" (Acts 7:55-56). If God has a right hand, he has a body. That's what Joseph Smith saw too.”Show a response

That's a moving scene, and I'm glad you take it seriously. But think about how Scripture uses "right hand". Exodus 15:6 says, "Your right hand, O LORD, glorious in power, shatters the enemy." Psalm 110:1, which the apostles quote often, pictures the Messiah seated at God's right hand: the place of honour and authority. Stephen sees Jesus vindicated and exalted. Jesus does have a body, because the eternal Son became flesh (John 1:14) and rose bodily. But the Father, Jesus says, is spirit (John 4:24), and a spirit does not have flesh and bones (Luke 24:39). Paul calls God "invisible" (1 Tim 1:17), and Solomon said heaven itself cannot contain him (1 Kgs 8:27). If we read "right hand" literally, should we also read the "wings" of Psalm 91:4 literally?

Written task

Write a 300-400 word response to a Latter-day Saint who says, “We all worship the same Heavenly Father and the same Jesus.” Explain accurately and fairly what LDS sources teach about God, compare it with at least three biblical texts, and explain why the difference matters for the gospel. Close with a kind question.

Hand this in to Mr Scott. He will look for:

Represents LDS teaching accurately with correct citations (King Follett, Snow couplet, D&C 130:22 or 132:20).
Acknowledges variation among members without denying official teaching.
Uses at least three biblical texts accurately (e.g. Isa 43:10; 44:6-8; Ps 90:2; Num 23:19; John 4:24).
Explains clearly why the doctrine of God affects Christ and salvation.
Maintains a respectful tone and ends with a genuine question.